SirHatterGreenGuide - Revision history

Sammael: link add

2008-03-04T00:57:46Z

link add

Sammael at 03:35, 8 October 2007

2007-10-08T03:35:37Z

Groentje: /* Unit breakdown */

2006-12-27T14:11:34Z

‎Unit breakdown

Groentje at 14:10, 27 December 2006

2006-12-27T14:10:22Z

Groentje: /* The curse of the veteran mage */

2006-12-27T14:07:10Z

‎The curse of the veteran mage

Groentje: /* The curse of the veteran mage */

2006-12-27T14:03:28Z

‎The curse of the veteran mage

Groentje: /* The curse of the veteran mage */

2006-12-27T14:01:40Z

‎The curse of the veteran mage

Groentje: /* The curse of the veteran mage */

2006-12-27T14:00:29Z

‎The curse of the veteran mage

Groentje: /* Part 1: Overall summary of green */

2006-12-27T13:55:59Z

‎Part 1: Overall summary of green

Groentje: /* Part 2: Land setup, economy, etc. */

2006-12-27T13:55:31Z

‎Part 2: Land setup, economy, etc.

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:57, 4 March 2008
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 * ''last chapters lost - not (yet) on wiki''
-=preface=
+=Preface=
 ''So a verdant guide for apprentice is in demand, and here it is, sort of.
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 * Trying to quickly hit the cap before you can get maimed and drop tons of land in a single day...
 (not preserved)

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 Regarding [[Geld]] usage, [[heroes]] are not required. In fact, keeping more than 1 or 2 is not recommended. The underlying big reason for this is discussed later. Ideally, the heroes to purchase if you choose to go down this path would include your top heroes that have above average non-valor abilities. The [[Warlord]], a high level [[Shieldmaiden]], and a [[Shaman]] with [[Channeling]] are probably the top 3 [[heroes]] a green can have. The [[Sage]] and [[Engineer]] remain useful as always.
-=Unit breakdown=
+=Breakdown of greens complex unit's=
 With a relative low spell level, green will want to rely primarily on its native units (on-color). In the apprentice server there is only one acceptable choice for a top stacked unit as a green, and that is grabbing land. Most of you know what this is already... but perhaps its better to know why other units are not suitable. For the veterans, I only recommend reading the [[Treant]] vs [[Griffon]] comparison. The rest should be obvious to you.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Originally by Sirhatter
 * ''Because apprentice now has repaired spell-level, this wiki version of SirHatter's ancient guide has been edited a bit.''
 * ''last chapters lost - not (yet) on wiki''
-==preface==
+=preface=
-''So its in demand, and here it is, sort of.
+''So a verdant guide for apprentice is in demand, and here it is, sort of.
 A forewarning, the white guide took me quite a few hours to write (id say nearly 10-12). I dont intend to put that time into a green one given my retirement/laziness/need to take care of real life issues. However since many of the concepts in the white guide are pertinent here too, if you are familiar with archmage and have read the white guide, this should suit you ok.
@@ Line 24: / Line 22: @@
 ''sirHatter''
-=Overall summary of green=
+=Verdant Guide for Apprentice=
 Green is the strongest mage speciality in Apprentice The Reincarnation. Outsiders to apprentice quickly wonder: What stops the [[Treant]]?. The answer is: Very little really. Green does not need to rely on [[heroes]] much at all, and in apprentice is the richest [[geld]] speciality in the game, insuring a healthy economy. It has access to the single most dominant unit, and in spite of potential [[mana]] issues, it can quickly find a way to play within its limitations and outgrab every other color and then out[[geld]] them for the toys needed to win on [[armageddon]].

@@ Line 218: / Line 218: @@
-Attacker 1:
+* Attacker 1: {{red}} Red. [[Chimera|Chim]]/[[Efreeti]] top, Lots of fire troops galore. [[Salamander|sals]], you name it. Throwing on [[Stun]]/[[The Spider's Web]] as assignment...
-{{red}} Red. [[Chimera|Chim]]/[[Efreeti]] top, Lots of fire troops galore. [[Salamander|sals]], you name it. Throwing on [[Stun]]/[[Spider Web]] as assignment...
+* Attacker 2: {{green}} Green, just doing a [[Regular]]... lots of [[Treant]]s, in fact, he is also mono-treant. [[Rust Armor]]/[[Carpet of Flying]].
-Attacker 3:
+If you have stacked deep, with a good assignment, you will surely block 2 out of the 3, depending on the assignment used ([[The Spider's Web]] will stop #2, and gives you an above 50% chance against #3 because you now have first strike with your fodder). A [[Carpet of Flying|carpet]] will block attacker 2 if your [[barriers]] blocked his carpet. It will also let you probably beat attacker one. [[Flame Blade]]/[[Oil Flasks]] will block all three, if your [[Treant]]s can actually get to hit without getting clobbered.
 [[Treant]] users will have a much tougher time, especially if they chose to play without [[barriers]]. That's not the real problem though. Losing on defense isn't fatal, and it's not that bad, especially if you can get land back in counters. But if the mono-treant stack is one thing, it is slow, and plodding. 60 acres per win... move along slowly and steadily, and you can only afford to make 6-8 hits a day max. This will yield 360-480 acres if you're the best (luckiest) offensive player ever. Losing is not an option for the mono-treant guy, because he can't gain the land back quick enough...

@@ Line 179: / Line 179: @@
 ==The curse of the veteran mage==
-<center>'''Hehe, this liberates you in a way.
+<center>'''Hehe, this liberates you in a way.'''</center>
-They click [[Siege]], and lose, where if they had gone [[Regular]] they would have won'''.
+The curse of the veteran mage is: '''They click [[Siege]], and lose, where if they had gone [[Regular]] they would have won'''.  And when they click [[Regular]], they see weak [[Soul Speaker]]s top, and damn themselves because a [[Siege]] would also have been won, and would have meant so much more land! If you dont like to think, or are incapable of it, this will work for you: '''You never siege!!!!!''' Click that bloody [[Regular]] button every darn time, and you'll have made the right decision ''if your mono-treant''. Even with this change of tactic, you still can't take max land from any mage over 3200 acres.
-And when they click [[Regular]], they see weak [[Soul Speaker]]s top, and damn themselves because a [[Siege]] would also have been won, and would have meant so much more land!
+<center>'''So: if you want to gain land and climb quickly, you do not want to go mono treant.'''</center>

@@ Line 235: / Line 235: @@
 Attacker 3:
-{{black}} black. [[Lich]] top, a good number of [[efreeti]] and [[Salamander]] underneath, along with a few [[Wraith]]s and [[Vampires]] of course, and enough [[Zombie]]s to take land. He is going [[Web of the Spider Woman]]/[[Candle of Sleeping]]...
+{{black}} black. [[Lich]] top, a good number of [[efreeti]] and [[Salamander]] underneath, along with a few [[Wraith]]s and [[Vampire]]s of course, and enough [[Zombie]]s to take land. He is going [[Web of the Spider Woman]]/[[Candle of Sleeping]]...
 If you have stacked deep, with a good assignment, you will surely block 2 out of the 3, depending on the assignment used ([[Spider Web]] will stop #2, and gives you an above average chance against #3 because you now have first strike with your fodder). A [[Carpet of Flying|carpet]] will block attacker 2 if your [[barriers]] blocked his carpet. It will also let you probably beat attacker one. [[Flame Blade]]/[[Oil Flasks]] will block all three, if your [[Treants]] can actually get to hit without getting clobbered.
-[[Mono-treant]] users will have a much tougher time, especially if they chose to play without [[barriers]]. That's not the real problem though. Losing on defense isn't fatal, and it's not that bad, especially if you can get land back in counters. But if the mono-treant stack is one thing, it is slow, and plodding. 60 acres per win... move along slowly and steadily, and you can only afford to make 6-8 hits a day max. This will yield 360-480 acres if you're the best (luckiest) offensive player ever. Losing is not an option for the mono-treant guy, because he can't gain the land back quick enough...
+[[Treant]] users will have a much tougher time, especially if they chose to play without [[barriers]]. That's not the real problem though. Losing on defense isn't fatal, and it's not that bad, especially if you can get land back in counters. But if the mono-treant stack is one thing, it is slow, and plodding. 60 acres per win... move along slowly and steadily, and you can only afford to make 6-8 hits a day max. This will yield 360-480 acres if you're the best (luckiest) offensive player ever. Losing is not an option for the mono-treant guy, because he can't gain the land back quick enough...
 However, for the deep stacked mage... If he loses 350 acres, its ok, since tomorrow he makes 600 and ends up ahead.

@@ Line 198: / Line 198: @@
 Even without bars, you have to spend 5 turns mana charging, just to raise the 25k mana at 3333 land, needed to make a regular attack. And then you limit yourself to about 60 acres per win if you are lucky. Realistically, no matter how many trees you have, without [[barriers]] you are dead meat. That red with lots of [[Chimera|chims]] ''will'' find you, and molest you with [[Web of the Spider Woman]] getting through every time.
-Your [[mana]] deficit, even without [[barriers]] becomes an issue. [[turns|You only get 150 turns in Apprentice]]. So disbanding, then [[mana#m.p. charging|mana charging]], then summoning up [[Treants]] 12 times is not a realistic possibility... The fact is you cannot go on ''long'' attack runs as a mono treant mage. You are forced to spend huge amounts of turns [[mana#m.p. charging|mana charging]] and resummoning and on top of it every [[Siege]] is very expensive and the most you can gain is 60 acres... if you win. This is why there is a better way. Instead of running 8000 treants... (3.3 million power) what if you ran:
+Your [[mana]] deficit, even without [[barriers]] becomes an issue. [[turns|You only get 150 turns in Apprentice]]. So disbanding, then [[mana#m.p. charging|mana charging]], then summoning up [[Treant]]s 12 times is not a realistic possibility... The fact is you cannot go on ''long'' attack runs as a mono treant mage. You are forced to spend huge amounts of turns [[mana#m.p. charging|mana charging]] and resummoning and on top of it every [[Siege]] is very expensive and the most you can gain is 60 acres... if you win. This is why there is a better way. Instead of running 8000 treants... (3.3 million power) what if you ran:
 * 4500 {{green}}[[Treant]]s (1.8 mil power)
@@ Line 213: / Line 213: @@
 * But now are well over 25k troops... full land is assured almost no matter what.
 * But the upkeep is tremendously lower.
-** The [[Treant]]s cost 8100 mana still, and the [[Mandrakes]] and [[Werebears]] are another 1650. That puts you at 9750.
+** The [[Treant]]s cost 8,100 mana still, and the [[Mandrake]]s and [[Werebear]]s are another 1650. That puts you at 9,750.
-** The [[Salamander]]s, [[Druid]]s and [[Elven Magicians]] combined is just about 1k. 10,800 mana.
+** The [[Salamander]]s, [[Druid]]s and [[Elven Magician]]s combined is just about 1k. 10,800 mana.
 ** Your last 3 stacks combined are 250 mana exactly.
 * You have put this army together, that for upkeep costs you 11,100 mana, under 100,000 geld, and no population.
 The 3300 reduced mana costs makes a tremendous difference... Instead of spending 14400 on troops alone, you now spent 11,100. Your income is 10000. The 3300 mana you have saved can be spent in the form of 66 [[barriers|barriers (i.e. 2% of 3333 land, about 60% barrer resistance)]]. So I now pose the question:
-* Would you rather have 8000 treants, and nothing else on defense, without any [[barriers]],
+* Would you rather have 8000 [[Treant]]s, and nothing else on defense, without any [[barriers]],
 or
-* 4400 treants, some buffers, then fodder,
+* 4400 [[Treant]]s, some buffers/blockers/damage soakers, then [[Fodder]],
 * and a very good chance of blocking at least one of the spell or item,
 * and a 1/3 chance of blocking both?
@@ Line 230: / Line 230: @@
 Attacker 1:
 {{red}} Red. [[Chimera|Chim]]/[[Efreeti]] top, Lots of fire troops galore. [[Salamander|sals]], you name it. Throwing on [[Stun]]/[[Spider Web]] as assignment...
 Attacker 2:
-{{green}} Green, just doing a [[Regular]]... lots of [[Treants]], in fact, he is also mono-treant. [[Rust Armor]]/[[Carpet of Flying]].
+{{green}} Green, just doing a [[Regular]]... lots of [[Treant]]s, in fact, he is also mono-treant. [[Rust Armor]]/[[Carpet of Flying]].
 Attacker 3:
@@ Line 251: / Line 249: @@
 Its an upward spiral... And once you have that momentum as a green, it becomes very hard to stop you.
-Right now I haven't proven this yet, but if you believe me when I say {{green}} Verdant mages can climb very quickly, and can once they get the momentum, they cant be stopped, why would you pick such a plodding stack? The answer eludes me to this day... IT is, perhaps why, mages of varying skill and understanding, call mono tree users with the ubiquituous term 'N00b' (or worse)
+Right now I haven't proven this yet, but if you believe me when I say {{green}} Verdant mages can climb very quickly, and can once they get the momentum, they cant be stopped, why would you pick such a plodding stack? The answer eludes me to this day... IT is, perhaps why, mages of varying skill and understanding, call mono tree users with the ubiquituous term 'N00b' (or worse).
+'''Thus, even though green has no unit better than the [[Treant]], not even close, any serious verdant mage needs to have a properly stacked army, and a fairly deep stacked one.'''
-Thus, even though green has no unit better than the [[Treant]], not even close, any serious verdant mage needs to have a properly stacked army, and a fairly deep stacked one.
+|soandsoinIRC| Pure trees are for N00bs
 =The actual target picking - keys to grab quickly=

@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 ''sirHatter''
-=Part 1: Overall summary of green=
+=Overall summary of green=
 Green is the strongest mage speciality in Apprentice The Reincarnation. Outsiders to apprentice quickly wonder: What stops the [[Treant]]?. The answer is: Very little really. Green does not need to rely on [[heroes]] much at all, and in apprentice is the richest [[geld]] speciality in the game, insuring a healthy economy. It has access to the single most dominant unit, and in spite of potential [[mana]] issues, it can quickly find a way to play within its limitations and outgrab every other color and then out[[geld]] them for the toys needed to win on [[armageddon]].
 ==Differences between apprentice and ultimate servers==
 Green on ultimate servers is an efficiency machine. It gets [[Nature's Favor]] (giving [[Treant]]s [[Dryad]]s and [[Nymph]]s and improved [[farms|farmland]] bonus every turn) and has ultimate units that can be placed high in stackings. The result is a much different style of green can be played on ultimate servers, where most of one's army is destroyed in an attack run, only to see that it takes merely 20 turns to resummon units at the end, thanks to wonders such as [[Nature's Favor]] and the extra [[barracks]] it creates space for. Green can play so efficiently that some even utilized [[Blood Ritual]] as a way of making a hyper-efficient battle machine: an army that could attack over and over and constantly regenerate itself. That is not the case on apprentice. You have no ultimate units. You have to rely on the [[Treant]] more to win battles, and be smarter with your economy. On the plus side, without the [[Red Dragon]], reds cannot easily feed off of greens without fear of seriously being maimed on defense. Furthermore, green's lack of reliance on heroes in a server where they are so hard makes it a very dominant color defensively.
 =Land setup, economy=

@@ Line 30: / Line 30: @@
 Green on ultimate servers is an efficiency machine. It gets [[Nature's Favor]] (giving [[Treant]]s [[Dryad]]s and [[Nymph]]s and improved [[farms|farmland]] bonus every turn) and has ultimate units that can be placed high in stackings. The result is a much different style of green can be played on ultimate servers, where most of one's army is destroyed in an attack run, only to see that it takes merely 20 turns to resummon units at the end, thanks to wonders such as [[Nature's Favor]] and the extra [[barracks]] it creates space for. Green can play so efficiently that some even utilized [[Blood Ritual]] as a way of making a hyper-efficient battle machine: an army that could attack over and over and constantly regenerate itself. That is not the case on apprentice. You have no ultimate units. You have to rely on the [[Treant]] more to win battles, and be smarter with your economy. On the plus side, without the [[Red Dragon]], reds cannot easily feed off of greens without fear of seriously being maimed on defense. Furthermore, green's lack of reliance on heroes in a server where they are so hard makes it a very dominant color defensively.
-=Part 2: Land setup, economy, etc.=
+=Land setup, economy=
 At some point, you are going to finish research. This is when you will begin your grabbing and serious play. Economy should be set to around 35-40% [[Nodes]], gradually increasing [[Barriers]] as you grab more land, low [[Forts]] (a number of 10-20 is ideal), a farm:town ratio of 1.8 or thereabouts, and a healthy 10% [[Barracks]]. Of course keep some [[Workshops]] around as well.
@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 Regarding [[Geld]] usage, [[heroes]] are not required. In fact, keeping more than 1 or 2 is not recommended. The underlying big reason for this is discussed later. Ideally, the heroes to purchase if you choose to go down this path would include your top heroes that have above average non-valor abilities. The [[Warlord]], a high level [[Shieldmaiden]], and a [[Shaman]] with [[Channeling]] are probably the top 3 [[heroes]] a green can have. The [[Sage]] and [[Engineer]] remain useful as always.
-==Unit breakdown==
+=Unit breakdown=
 With a relative low spell level, green will want to rely primarily on its native units (on-color). In the apprentice server there is only one acceptable choice for a top stacked unit as a green, and that is grabbing land. Most of you know what this is already... but perhaps its better to know why other units are not suitable. For the veterans, I only recommend reading the [[Treant]] vs [[Griffon]] comparison. The rest should be obvious to you.
@@ Line 47: / Line 47: @@
 Let's take a look at the pretenders
-===[[Werebear]] and [[Mandrake]] discussion...===
+==[[Werebear]] and [[Mandrake]] discussion...==
 A good unit on paper, high attack power, a very nice potential to valor boost, they [[Enlarge Animal|enlarge]] and [[Ring of Animal Command|ring]], and get [[:category:humans|human]] perks as well. Mid-range resistances though and low hit points. Your real problem with this unit is, as good as it looks on paper, it wont BEAT anything.
 * {{white}} It will hold its own against the white ground pounders, maybe even slightly win if [[Enlarge Animal|enlarged]], but wont really do enough damage. They will also die a good bit.
@@ Line 66: / Line 66: @@
 This leaves two choices
-===[[Griffon]] and [[Treant]] discussion...===
+==[[Griffon]] and [[Treant]] discussion==
 [[Griffon]]s were created with the thought in mind that they could replace treants in some stackings. Whoever thought that however, did a bad job of implementing it. I've heard some supposedly veteran am players argue for a [[Griffon]] top stack. Most of these players are the types that will run [[FLYING|all flyers all the time]] and don't want to play offensively for real. They click explore until they that doesn't yield land anymore, at which point they might attack, or they might just try using [[Magical Compass]]es starting then. I dont respect [[Griffon]] users who constantly play them as a top stack. After youre done reading this, you shouldnt either.